Plans Ahead

[Nozemi]

I would just like to inform you that so far things are going according to plan. I'm making progress on the new website. Some of you might question my decision to work on a new website instead of finishing the new server. More on that later.

First of all, I would like to clear up any potential misunderstandings. Ivan and I are on good terms, though unfortunately we couldn't seem to work together. Then the question was, who is going to take charge. Decision fell on me, because I know how to program, Ivan doesn't. So I hope that I can deliver on my previous promises.

Server Reset - Do note that we're not resetting the server!
Some players have expressed their concern about the current state of the economy, and even stats. Some wants a reset. However the staff team doesn't share the same thoughts about solution to the problem. We do however know how bad of a state Dodian is in at the moment. We found a potential solution, and we think it'll be a good one, it's not entirely decided just how we'll be doing it right now. We would like to hear some of your opinions on it before we make the final decisions.

Point System
What we want to do is introduce a point system. You trade in items, maybe even skill experience to receive points. These points can be used in a store to obtain items not otherwise obtainable. These items will mostly be untradeable items. This point system will come to stay. However we thought that we should add some limited time deals, so that the players that have played up until this reset will have the chance to get some unique items that are never to be obtained in any way ever again.

With this, we have the following questions for you!

- What items would you wish to see in this point store? (can be anything from OSRS)
- Should we forcefully convert items and skills into points, or should be make it optional? Alternatively should we only forcefully do items, and leave skills, or entirely optional?
- Should we have only tradeables or non-tradeables, or a mix of both?
- Should we solely have cosmetic items or also gear/consumables?

So for now, if we can get some feedback on this, it would be awesome and a lot of help! After all, we want the community to be a part of deciding the future as much as that's possible, so your opinions matter a lot to us!

New Website
As mentioned earlier, some of you might question the decision to make a new website instead of completing the new server.

Security
vBulletin is extremely outdated, there are probably multiple security vulnerabilities for those who care to look carefully enough. The currently installed website's files has been in the hands of a good amount of people, who could've tampered with them to make security holes. So my trust in this being a secure website is very limited.

Functionality & Maintainabilty
Considering the dated source code, documentation, plugins and themes. It's very hard and time consuming to add or adjust features of vBulletin. For example when we started out, we had paid premium membership, but it was manually being handled by admin team. Reason was PayPal integration being broken, and there was no easy way to fix it.

Conclusion
The conclusion is that we need a website we can easily integrate things with. So for the new server to be functional, we need a website we can build the integrations into. It really doesn't need to be anything complicated taking years to build either. We don't have a whole lot of forum activity, so we'll be going for a more blog-like approach. Have announcements, and let players comment on these announcements. We'll see about more advanced forum-like features in the future.

To sum it up, we'll basically need this:
- Registration / Login
- User/Profile Settings
- Admin Control Panel
- User Management
- Server Management Tools (similar to those we already have)
- Announcement Posting/Commenting

So when will this be done?
As you're well aware, giving specific dates, or even time frames isn't ideal here. We've all seen history repeat itself with staff not being able to uphold their promised deadlines. Though I will say I hope to get a beta version of the new website setup in about a weeks time.

New Server
We've just started playing with the idea of going for an actual OSRS server base instead of a 317. This would probably involve a little bit more work than completing the current server, but we would have some benefits.

By going with an OSRS base, we'd have the option to have RuneLite and a mobile client for Android. We would also be able to use the actual OSRS client, instead of a massively messy and potentially bugged 317 client loading OSRS data. We've barely gotten started looking at this potential way of going forward. I guess we have until the website's beta is ready to decide on this.

More details on the new server to come when we start working on that again. In the meantime you can come with feedback on what we've just announced, so we can consider the community's opinions as well!

[Jabast]

As for the point system; I would only forcefully convert items and give players the choice to convert xp to points if they wish. Only sell untradeable items, no gear, because selling items, even if untradeable that are a certain tier of gear, will decrease the value of other items.

[supertje]

With this, we have the following questions for you!

- What items would you wish to see in this point store? (can be anything from OSRS)
- Should we forcefully convert items and skills into points, or should be make it optional? Alternatively should we only forcefully do items, and leave skills, or entirely optional?
- Should we have only tradeables or non-tradeables, or a mix of both?
- Should we solely have cosmetic items or also gear/consumables?

So beware not every osrs item works fine in this cache, i have tried to fix allot, but take as example, the inferno cape is fucked up.

So do not trade xp or levels in, so maybe give skillers a random (skiller) item while skilling that can be trade for points.

You can mix the items up of tradeable things, like consumables. But gear not.
Im not a fan of combat gear in the store.

[BAJF]

First of all, thank you for the update, we've waited patiently for this. I appreciate you reaching out to the community and ask for their input.

I like the idea of a point system, if implemented correctly. Right now, there is no competition over supposedly rare items and too many players are maxed out or nearly maxed out. All there is left is the hoarding of items.

What items would you wish to see in this point store? (can be anything from OSRS)

Cosmetic, untradeable items only. I agree with Jabast on this, all it would do is decrease the value of the rare drops. Adding to the idea of limited-edition items, you can make those cosmetic items seasonal, i.e. bunny ears / easter baskets during Easter and H'ween masks during Halloween. Other cosmetics could include Cavalier hats, flowers, gilded armor: the original fashionscape items.

Should we forcefully convert items and skills into points, or should be make it optional? Alternatively should we only forcefully do items, and leave skills, or entirely optional?

Simply put: no. Although it would positively balance the game, I believe many players would quit the game after seeing their hard work be shattered, which would be disastrous for the already shrinking player base. Let them be maxed out if they want, let them play the game however they want. I believe enough players will optionally revert their skills to create a new layer of valuables. It needs only a few to lead.

I do support an optional conversion of skill experience into points: it increases the longevity of the player journey on Dodian and add purpose to the grind. I do not support a forceful or optional conversion of items, which is where I disagree with Jabast. Converting items would not increase the value of the rares with such a small player base. It would only add temporary value to them and shift the emphasis from skilling to camping bosses at max level. Point rewards could be purchased too soon, as there is no competition at the bosses. This does not increase the longevity of the player journey, hence we cannot sustainably grow the player base.


Should we have only tradeables or non-tradeables, or a mix of both?
Should we solely have cosmetic items or also gear/consumables?

Untradeables only. Preferably cosmetics. The economy should be more balanced and adding tradeables would disturb that even further. Runescape has always been about long, tedious grinds and although I believe some skills need to be more balanced, adding tradeables is not the solution.

[Nozemi]

First of all, thank you for the update, we've waited patiently for this. I appreciate you reaching out to the community and ask for their input.

I like the idea of a point system, if implemented correctly. Right now, there is no competition over supposedly rare items and too many players are maxed out or nearly maxed out. All there is left is the hoarding of items.



Cosmetic, untradeable items only. I agree with Jabast on this, all it would do is decrease the value of the rare drops. Adding to the idea of limited-edition items, you can make those cosmetic items seasonal, i.e. bunny ears / easter baskets during Easter and H'ween masks during Halloween. Other cosmetics could include Cavalier hats, flowers, gilded armor: the original fashionscape items.



Simply put: no. Although it would positively balance the game, I believe many players would quit the game after seeing their hard work be shattered, which would be disastrous for the already shrinking player base. Let them be maxed out if they want, let them play the game however they want. I believe enough players will optionally revert their skills to create a new layer of valuables. It needs only a few to lead.

I do support an optional conversion of skill experience into points: it increases the longevity of the player journey on Dodian and add purpose to the grind. I do not support a forceful or optional conversion of items, which is where I disagree with Jabast. Converting items would not increase the value of the rares with such a small player base. It would only add temporary value to them and shift the emphasis from skilling to camping bosses at max level. Point rewards could be purchased too soon, as there is no competition at the bosses. This does not increase the longevity of the player journey, hence we cannot sustainably grow the player base.



Untradeables only. Preferably cosmetics. The economy should be more balanced and adding tradeables would disturb that even further. Runescape has always been about long, tedious grinds and although I believe some skills need to be more balanced, adding tradeables is not the solution.

Thanks for your input. Looks well reflected. In my personal opinion I wouldn't do anything forcefully, but I still need to look aside from what I personally want and try to find what's best for Dodian.

As for seasonal items, I'm not sure, we could probably do that, or we could reserve them for seasonal events. We need to think about that. Events would require someone to make them as well, which we need to consider.

I probably wouldn't put party hats in this store. I didn't agree with Ivan's way of distributing rare items, so ideally I'd like a way to remove the rares that was distributed and distribute them the way I originally planned to (more on that later if it becomes relevant).

Another thing that came to mind when you mentioned longevity, is skill prestiges. If we decided to go with prestiges for skills, how do we combine this with the point system? I guess the answer is, it just works well, people have to decide if they want points or prestige.

So beware not every osrs item works fine in this cache, i have tried to fix allot, but take as example, the inferno cape is fucked up.

Not really relevant. If we add the item, we fix the item. Also as I mentioned going with actual OSRS server base, we could use a OSRS deob client. This would eliminate all the bugs found in clients modified by the RSPS community.


So do not trade xp or levels in, so maybe give skillers a random (skiller) item while skilling that can be trade for points.

You can mix the items up of tradeable things, like consumables. But gear not.
Im not a fan of combat gear in the store.

We will need to make skilling less useless and more involved with the rest of the game. Skilling just to get those 99s is boring and pointless, for a lot of people anyway. I've drafted quite a few plans on how to improve this previously. I'll reveal more details on this once it's time.

For now though, the idea is to figure out how to best please all players, both those who want a reset and those who doesn't. This is where the points store comes in.

The idea is to give every single item a value, so you can convert them to points. Value depends on how hard items are to obtain naturally.

We have discussed the idea of being able to disguise gear as something else. In WoW this would be called transmog. So your whip could look like a bronze dagger for example. If we go this route, we could put skins (let's call them skins) in the shop.

[Jobbernowl]

Full reset with proper advertising just through getting the word out (mainly for oldies) would make for quite a few people coming in to want to play a fresh Dodian once more. Myself included.

[Nozemi]

Full reset with proper advertising just through getting the word out (mainly for oldies) would make for quite a few people coming in to want to play a fresh Dodian once more. Myself included.

Too bad there is no telling whether it would be the best idea long term to completely reset or to find a way to make it work with what we have. Since there is no way of knowing a full reset would be the better route, I'm going to keep my promise of not resetting Dodian.

I feel like people who come back after a full wipe are people who wants to compete for that #1, and when they fall too far behind, or realize Dodian is boring after a week, we're back to being in the dirt again. I speak from personal experience with this, because I like that #1 race, and sometimes that's the most exciting thing about Dodian.

Conclusion is that a full reset is not going to help Dodian out. If that's needed for people to play, then those people don't really want to play the game. Which means those people are not going to keep playing for very long.

[matokiller5]

Too bad there is no telling whether it would be the best idea long term to completely reset or to find a way to make it work with what we have. Since there is no way of knowing a full reset would be the better route, I'm going to keep my promise of not resetting Dodian.

I feel like people who come back after a full wipe are people who wants to compete for that #1, and when they fall too far behind, or realize Dodian is boring after a week, we're back to being in the dirt again. I speak from personal experience with this, because I like that #1 race, and sometimes that's the most exciting thing about Dodian.

Conclusion is that a full reset is not going to help Dodian out. If that's needed for people to play, then those people don't really want to play the game. Which means those people are not going to keep playing for very long.

Yes, I agree with you. I think the competition for # 1 is the most attractive and if we give a big advantage to the players who have played the game until now, I think it will discourage new players. Please don't punish new players for not playing before. Yes, I understand that the players who have played so far (like me) and have made some progress, feel cheated and they want some advantage, but dont be selfish. Who do you want to show your skills and your items to, if we discourage new players and putting them into disadvantage? In my opinion, what discourages players is not that they have reached # 1 and they have all items in the game, but that they are bored and have nothing to do. Its only because there are no updates coming. Just like OSRS, new items and new bosses are always added. So it should be here as well. Thats why i think a full server restart is the best solution.


- What items would you wish to see in this point store? (can be anything from OSRS)

I wouldn't add a point store. As it is in OSRS, there are no more rare items. I think this is the best solution. Maybe I would add a boss who would drop a party hat with an extremely small chance to get drop. For me, it would be an amazing challange to get an item with an extremely low droprate that no one has yet. I would kill one boss even a week until I got a drop.

So this is my opinion. Let me know what you think about it :)

[hieko]

- What items would you wish to see in this point store? (can be anything from OSRS)

Cosmetics, agreed with the two above, they shouldnt give any advantage over other players and be purely for show. Treasure trails items would be good if theres not clue system in the base.

- Should we forcefully convert items and skills into points, or should be make it optional? Alternatively should we only forcefully do items, and leave skills, or entirely optional?

im all for a full reset of everything because everyone keeps saying we could lose long time players but a lot of players wont even want to start playing a server thats "new" but has people who have maxed accounts already or BIS items(also if everyone is maxed and has the BIS items what is there for them to achieve or make them keep playing? you would just have to wait for updates). A fresh start would be really nice for dodian i think.


- Should we have only tradeables or non-tradeables, or a mix of both?

both.

- Should we solely have cosmetic items or also gear/consumables?

cosmetics. consumeables would be fine as well but i dont see a point for them really, who would reset their account to have food/pots?


I feel now is a chance for the community to reset and rebuild, we used to be so active and so involved and i understand weve all grown up and have lives now but theres pretty much no forum activity and all we see is discord mostly. A clean new base would be a great start to get things rolling as well. I do like the idea of an OSRS base since it has more upward potential in growing vs the current base.

[matokiller5]

I agree with hieko.

Also i would like to discuss one problem i noticed. I feel like most of you should feel the same.

When I go to kill a boss who drops a bis item and it is occupied by another player with better dps, then I have to do something different and I go away and play later. It's happened to me many times and I think it's worth considering and change it a little bit.
I think it would be good idea to add monsters like abyssal demons, that can drop whip like Nechryael. The chances of a drop are smaller and the large number of players can kill them without being scared that someone else take the drop. For example, if I need spined armor, I can only kill Daganoth Prime and it can be occupied non-stop. It could discourage someone like me. Therefore, it would be good to either add another bosses that drops similar items or add small daganoths with a smaller chance to drop same item.

One more thing i would like to mention. When I kill for example kbd, the respawn time is terribly long, I don't want to be 3 minutes afk waiting for him to respawn. It would be reasonable to reduce the timer or place around some dragons that I could kill while the kbd is respawning.

Thanks, and as always let me know what you think about it.

[Jabast]

I agree with hieko.

Also i would like to discuss one problem i noticed. I feel like most of you should feel the same.

When I go to kill a boss who drops a bis item and it is occupied by another player with better dps, then I have to do something different and I go away and play later. It's happened to me many times and I think it's worth considering and change it a little bit.
I think it would be good idea to add monsters like abyssal demons, that can drop whip like Nechryael. The chances of a drop are smaller and the large number of players can kill them without being scared that someone else take the drop. For example, if I need spined armor, I can only kill Daganoth Prime and it can be occupied non-stop. It could discourage someone like me. Therefore, it would be good to either add another bosses that drops similar items or add small daganoths with a smaller chance to drop same item.

One more thing i would like to mention. When I kill for example kbd, the respawn time is terribly long, I don't want to be 3 minutes afk waiting for him to respawn. It would be reasonable to reduce the timer or place around some dragons that I could kill while the kbd is respawning.

Thanks, and as always let me know what you think about it.

Abyssal demons are already ingame. As for your kbd problem, that's the thing with the boss, you sacrifice the bones, reducing spawn timer would only flood more items into the game. Those timers are there with a reason.

[Nozemi]

I agree with hieko.

Also i would like to discuss one problem i noticed. I feel like most of you should feel the same.

When I go to kill a boss who drops a bis item and it is occupied by another player with better dps, then I have to do something different and I go away and play later. It's happened to me many times and I think it's worth considering and change it a little bit.
I think it would be good idea to add monsters like abyssal demons, that can drop whip like Nechryael. The chances of a drop are smaller and the large number of players can kill them without being scared that someone else take the drop. For example, if I need spined armor, I can only kill Daganoth Prime and it can be occupied non-stop. It could discourage someone like me. Therefore, it would be good to either add another bosses that drops similar items or add small daganoths with a smaller chance to drop same item.

One more thing i would like to mention. When I kill for example kbd, the respawn time is terribly long, I don't want to be 3 minutes afk waiting for him to respawn. It would be reasonable to reduce the timer or place around some dragons that I could kill while the kbd is respawning.

Thanks, and as always let me know what you think about it.

This is a debate we've had many times. We need to consider the bossing situation. Although this is the case for many games. If you aren't strong enough, you won't be able to compete with the other players. Just like on Rust, if I'm not geared good enough and am able to kill the other players, I won't be able to kill Bradley to get it's loot.

Many games solve this particular problem with instancing bosses. However I'm not sure that's the best route to go. We need to think carefully about doing something like that. Enabling everyone on a server to be able to farm a single boss at the same time, or farm the same items at different locations at the same time, can easily flood the economy with these items.

However with the point system I had in mind, I was thinking about buying instance tickets, so you get an instance room with a boss of your choosing. These tickets will be bit pricey though, but at least it would be something to grind towards, other than competing with stronger players.

We can also further improve the importance of supplies, like potions and food. Maybe even add prayer. This gives skilling all the more reason to do, and makes bossing a bit harder. People might camp them less.

Also considering the bossing situation and the kbd situation. I think we should do something about all the boss mechanics and spice up things a little bit. The original Dodian bosses won't be changed much, but they will probably become something more than meat balls with health and some occasional damage.

There is a ton of things to discuss about Dodian, this thread is not the place to discuss all of it. This thread is mainly to discuss the point system and what you would like to see that turn into.

[matokiller5]

Abyssal demons are already ingame. As for your kbd problem, that's the thing with the boss, you sacrifice the bones, reducing spawn timer would only flood more items into the game. Those timers are there with a reason.

I mean more monster like abyssal demons. I like that you can kill abyssal demons (to get whip) even if nechryael is occupied. It should be same with other bosses.

"reducing spawn timer would only flood more items into the game."

It wouldnt if you decrease drop-rate. In OSRS you have always like 10 sec respawn time. Or you have something else to do.. (Bandos, Armadyl, Sara, Zamorak, Alchemical hydra, wilderness bosses etc.)

[matokiller5]

This is a debate we've had many times. We need to consider the bossing situation. Although this is the case for many games. If you aren't strong enough, you won't be able to compete with the other players. Just like on Rust, if I'm not geared good enough and am able to kill the other players, I won't be able to kill Bradley to get it's loot.

Many games solve this particular problem with instancing bosses. However I'm not sure that's the best route to go. We need to think carefully about doing something like that. Enabling everyone on a server to be able to farm a single boss at the same time, or farm the same items at different locations at the same time, can easily flood the economy with these items.

However with the point system I had in mind, I was thinking about buying instance tickets, so you get an instance room with a boss of your choosing. These tickets will be bit pricey though, but at least it would be something to grind towards, other than competing with stronger players.

We can also further improve the importance of supplies, like potions and food. Maybe even add prayer. This gives skilling all the more reason to do, and makes bossing a bit harder. People might camp them less.

Also considering the bossing situation and the kbd situation. I think we should do something about all the boss mechanics and spice up things a little bit. The original Dodian bosses won't be changed much, but they will probably become something more than meat balls with health and some occasional damage.

There is a ton of things to discuss about Dodian, this thread is not the place to discuss all of it. This thread is mainly to discuss the point system and what you would like to see that turn into.

I didnt thought about instance room. It would solve everything. So i already changed my mind i think point system and buying instance tickets is great idea.

[Nozemi]

I feel now is a chance for the community to reset and rebuild, we used to be so active and so involved and i understand weve all grown up and have lives now but theres pretty much no forum activity and all we see is discord mostly. A clean new base would be a great start to get things rolling as well. I do like the idea of an OSRS base since it has more upward potential in growing vs the current base.

I have some plans for Dodian, and would only consider a full reset when Dodian has matured substantially. Just launching a new server base with the same old content, same old drop rates would be futile. We'd be back to the current situation in no time.

Also not to mention we've been promising for two years not to reset anyone, at least not forcefully. All we can do for now is incentivize people to reset themselves, by giving them something worthwhile to do it for.

However if we increase the difficulty of things a bit, by doing things as losing items on death etc, it would probably less necessary to do any resets. Also should introduce iron man modes to Dodian.

The conclusion about no forceful resets will stick. In the future when (or even if) Dodian is substantially changed, we can maybe revisit the topic of a reset. Hopefully by then it's not relevant anymore though.

[BAJF]

I agree with hieko.

Also i would like to discuss one problem i noticed. I feel like most of you should feel the same.

When I go to kill a boss who drops a bis item and it is occupied by another player with better dps, then I have to do something different and I go away and play later. It's happened to me many times and I think it's worth considering and change it a little bit.
I think it would be good idea to add monsters like abyssal demons, that can drop whip like Nechryael. The chances of a drop are smaller and the large number of players can kill them without being scared that someone else take the drop. For example, if I need spined armor, I can only kill Daganoth Prime and it can be occupied non-stop. It could discourage someone like me. Therefore, it would be good to either add another bosses that drops similar items or add small daganoths with a smaller chance to drop same item.

One more thing i would like to mention. When I kill for example kbd, the respawn time is terribly long, I don't want to be 3 minutes afk waiting for him to respawn. It would be reasonable to reduce the timer or place around some dragons that I could kill while the kbd is respawning.

Thanks, and as always let me know what you think about it.


I'm sorry, Mato. I disagree completely with you here. The bosses have always been about competition and I think that shouldn't change. More potential rare drops would even destabilize the server further. I'd even go as far as saying the drop rates are too high considering the small community. Rares have become commons. Take yourself, you've gotten multiple whips. Would grinding even more actually benefit the server?

[matokiller5]

I'm sorry, Mato. I disagree completely with you here. The bosses have always been about competition and I think that shouldn't change. More potential rare drops would even destabilize the server further. I'd even go as far as saying the drop rates are too high considering the small community. Rares have become commons. Take yourself, you've gotten multiple whips. Would grinding even more actually benefit the server?


You got absolutely right and i agree with you in every sentence. But i think you dont quite understand what i want to change. I dont want to ruin economy and i want keep that competition about killing jad and getting red key as it is. Ill try to explain on example here:
The only thing i need is dragon boots. So i have to kill the only boss that drops d boots (KBD). But at the moment 1 player is killing KBD and 3 players are on wait list to kill him and they have higher DPS because they already got boots. What shoud i do? I have to wait.
So the solution that has been mentioned is instance rooms but it would kill the competition about item. We should add monsters like Mithril dragons that drop dboots, and at the same time decrease drop-rate. So for example if i have 1/100 chance to get Dboots from KBD, I would add Mithril dragons that drop d boots with chance of 1:5000 and also decrease droprate from kbd to 1:200 and it should keep economy in same shape. (didnt calculate it but its just example). So now i see KBD is occupied, i can kill Mithril dragons. Hope you know what i mean. And thanks for your reply.

''I'd even go as far as saying the drop rates are too high considering the small community.''

Yes, thats why i feel like droprates shoud be decreases on new server and eco should be restarted. First we need droplist with well thought out numbers, because its to late to change something once server is online.

[Pro Noob]

You got absolutely right and i agree with you in every sentence. But i think you dont quite understand what i want to change. I dont want to ruin economy and i want keep that competition about killing jad and getting red key as it is. Ill try to explain on example here:
The only thing i need is dragon boots. So i have to kill the only boss that drops d boots (KBD). But at the moment 1 player is killing KBD and 3 players are on wait list to kill him and they have higher DPS because they already got boots. What shoud i do? I have to wait.
So the solution that has been mentioned is instance rooms but it would kill the competition about item. We should add monsters like Mithril dragons that drop dboots, and at the same time decrease drop-rate. So for example if i have 1/100 chance to get Dboots from KBD, I would add Mithril dragons that drop d boots with chance of 1:5000 and also decrease droprate from kbd to 1:200 and it should keep economy in same shape. (didnt calculate it but its just example). So now i see KBD is occupied, i can kill Mithril dragons. Hope you know what i mean. And thanks for your reply.

''I'd even go as far as saying the drop rates are too high considering the small community.''

Yes, thats why i feel like droprates shoud be decreases on new server and eco should be restarted. First we need droplist with well thought out numbers, because its to late to change something once server is online.
Good reason why it is not easy to add a new boss into the game.

As to reduce time on bosses (from your old post), I would like to do it. However as of right now there is no real mechanic to boses to lower their spawn rate.
If we add some sort of challenge / mechanic, then we can start reduce spawn timer.