Pay to Play?

Originally Posted by Hunter

I understand the concept overall and why you would look into the "Pay to play" concept but my vote is no for the simple reason that I don't have the spare money to pay simply to play. I currently play because I have been around since the original shut down however many years ago and the nostalgia of the good times back in the day. If the concept of having to pay in order to play the server was implemented I would go back to just checking up on the server every couple months.

I know this isn't exactly the ideal response but realistically to me I just don't think paying for a little nostalgia is worth it when my money could go towards something such as groceries or gas that really effect my lifestyle.

I get where you're coming from, but the pure nostalgia thinking is going to hold the entire project back from it's true potential. If the original Ub3r 3.0 was still online, it would probably have had major changes by now. I know that they were good developers considering the time it was made.

So a lot of things will probably change so much that you can still recognize the Dodian in it's core, but just about everything is changing in one way or another. But we will for sure keep Yanille as home, and the red key dungeon. We will probably also keep Skeletal and Whip best in slot, but maybe introduce alternatives that are equally good, but I'm thinking that we won't introduce anything superior.

[a retard]

That's a no from me. In fact, I think we should be moving further from a p2p model than we already are, as long as it can be proven sustainable.

I think yell should be locked by total level or the paywall, and other premium features are just fine and dandy to put behind the paywall, but if a player can only get to level 80 combat before having to throw a 'deposit' into a server with 20 active members, we will never grow. Noone will ever pay that.

The only people paying for premium are returning members, and very few new players (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm assuming here.)

Originally Posted by a retard

That's a no from me. In fact, I think we should be moving further from a p2p model than we already are, as long as it can be proven sustainable.

I think yell should be locked by total level or the paywall, and other premium features are just fine and dandy to put behind the paywall, but if a player can only get to level 80 combat before having to throw a 'deposit' into a server with 20 active members, we will never grow. Noone will ever pay that.

The only people paying for premium are returning members, and very few new players (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm assuming here.)

You're not looking at this right. If you read through the replies I've made throughout the thread, you'll see why.

TL;DR: We're not meaning to implementing it right off the bat, but rather wait until we've launched the new server, and started advertising etc.

[Sirvu]

Originally Posted by Nozemi

You're not looking at this right. If you read through the replies I've made throughout the thread, you'll see why.

TL;DR: We're not meaning to implementing it right off the bat, but rather wait until we've launched the new server, and started advertising etc.

That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of potential new players won't want to have to make a deposit to keep playing a Runescape ripoff after only 24 hours of playtime.

Originally Posted by Sirvu

That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of potential new players won't want to have to make a deposit to keep playing a Runescape ripoff after only 24 hours of playtime.

24 hours of actual playing is quite a bit. Could get quite a bit done in that amount of time, so if someone chose not to pay to continue, it just ain't fun enough for them.

Who cares if it's a RuneScape ripoff. We could make something that is better than RuneScape. I think that you're maybe missing the bigger picture here.

To have something like this work; it entirely depends on everything, not just the server it self, but website, staff, future plans so on.

I agree that, with the small player base that we currently have, it's not even worth a thought. However, if after doing ads and voting, we catch interest and the playerbase grows. I think that this could be a very good addition to ease up the workload for staff members.

______

People might think that having enough staff that is online at all times, to maintain the server is a solution. Well, yes, it is. However, I believe in fair decision making, and that's only possible with viable proof, which we often don't have. Very often, we only have our word against the player's word, and if someone wanted to dispute their punishment, it would be the same.

With things being more automated, harder to cheat and in general just more sophisticated systems to help the staff members do their jobs properly, I believe it could be a very beneficial thing.

[Chambe]

The whole idea that you deposit money to play, and can get the refund only if you haven't broken any rules is enough for me to vote no. I get that as the owner of a MMO you have all the rights to call every shot, but this system seems to be very abuseable. You say that in a ban, it's often a staff members word against a players word, which is very unreliable. What then makes it reliable enough to withhold someones money?

Punishment for "ban evading" is a pretty shitty rule anyways. If you cheat on one account, should all your accounts be banned? Debatable. Even if that's the case, should all your future accounts be banned as well? Having just the one account - with two characters connected to it - seems pretty shit as well.

With this, you'd be restricted to two characters, which seems very.. Well, restricting. Restrictions isn't exactly what draws people to private servers, probably rather the lack thereof.

And yes, 24 hours is a respectable total playtime, but I don't agree with the sentient that everyone would gladly pay for something they've enjoyed for over 24 hours. I'd not.

I can probably see this system somewhat working on the surface, but the whole idea seems like a way to halter the players (which you, by the way, have all the rights to do). So in short, it's a big "no" from me on this one as there's other ways to "collect" money which are way healthier for the players freedom to play how they want.

Originally Posted by Chambe

The whole idea that you deposit money to play, and can get the refund only if you haven't broken any rules is enough for me to vote no. I get that as the owner of a MMO you have all the rights to call every shot, but this system seems to be very abuseable. You say that in a ban, it's often a staff members word against a players word, which is very unreliable. What then makes it reliable enough to withhold someones money?

Holding money would be in cases of someone clearly breaking the rules. With this system in place, we will be able to be very sure about who's who, because very few people will be making multiple accounts to hide their identity (which is the whole point of a system such as this).

To supplement the decision making when it comes to rules, we'll be implementing logs to monitor as much as we can through them.

Let's say someone were caught auto clicking (which is very common), I wouldn't give them a refund if they chose to quit after receiving the punishment. However, at a later point in time, after serving their punishment without making a problem about it, I might consider it.

However, it will mainly be; if you're breaking rules to such an extent that you're permanently banned for being a malicious player; you may not apply to get a refund. What this could be; continuously breaking rules, even after multiple soft to medium punishments.

As I mentioned earlier; this system is quite delicate, so if it's not done right and well thought through; I agree, it's a very big no. But if it's done right, I believe it could benefit both staff and players.

Originally Posted by Chambe

Punishment for "ban evading" is a pretty shitty rule anyways. If you cheat on one account, should all your accounts be banned? Debatable. Even if that's the case, should all your future accounts be banned as well? Having just the one account - with two characters connected to it - seems pretty shit as well.

Whether all accounts should be banned or not, depends on the rule being broken. Ban evading is against the rules in any game or community, for obvious reasons. What's the point in banning someone if they can just come back? Yes, you'd have to do progress again. Anyway, the account is just serving as a host for your characters.

Originally Posted by Chambe

With this, you'd be restricted to two characters, which seems very.. Well, restricting. Restrictions isn't exactly what draws people to private servers, probably rather the lack thereof.

No, restricting to two characters online at the time. You may create more characters that you can switch between; but you may only be active on two of them at the same time.

What limit we'll put on amount of characters per account, I'm not sure of yet. If we'll even put a limit to it.

Originally Posted by Chambe

And yes, 24 hours is a respectable total playtime, but I don't agree with the sentient that everyone would gladly pay for something they've enjoyed for over 24 hours. I'd not.

It's just meant to show you what you'll be paying for. If you're not hooked enough by 24 hours of playing to pay the few dollars required to continue playing, I guess we're doing something wrong, or the server just simply isn't for you.

I'd gladly pay for something I enjoyed, and if I could even apply to get my money back once I felt I was done with it, I'd probably not hesitate.

Originally Posted by Chambe

I can probably see this system somewhat working on the surface, but the whole idea seems like a way to halter the players (which you, by the way, have all the rights to do). So in short, it's a big "no" from me on this one as there's other ways to "collect" money which are way healthier for the players freedom to play how they want.

This is not to collect money, but rather incentive to follow the rules while playing. Who cares to lose a few dollars just to break some rules? Which again is the purpose of deposits. If you already paid, know you won't get the money back, and you're tired of playing. Rather than breaking rules, you apply for your money instead. Problem solved! (in theory that is)

[Furball]

This all hinges on just how much money the deposit ends up being. It's just like the deposit you give your landlord when you rent a home, to remind you there's something at stake in it if you mess the place up when you move out, they'll withhold the deposit and put it towards fixing up the mess you made. It's implimented in the real world, so I can understand why it seems to be a logical way to give players an incentive to behave.
The way I look at this is that if the deposit is small, more people can easily pay it and enjoy the server, but the stake will be small enough that a rulebreaker won't care if they lose it. On the flip-side, if it's too big, exponentially fewer people will be willing to pay it and the community suffers as a result. With premium being a monthly cost, it will serve much better as a deterrent to breaking rules because the money was effectively invested into those characters and would be lost if they got themselves banned.
I don't see deposits working on products that are not a necessity in people's lives as housing is, but I'm also by no means an expert in the financial field. I'd personally pay it as long as it's around the $5 area, but any more than that and I'd be thinking twice about whether it'd be worth the hassle. I have no desire to break any rules and gladly pay for premium in order to get the most out of my gameplay for the time that I can enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Furball

This all hinges on just how much money the deposit ends up being. It's just like the deposit you give your landlord when you rent a home, to remind you there's something at stake in it if you mess the place up when you move out, they'll withhold the deposit and put it towards fixing up the mess you made. It's implimented in the real world, so I can understand why it seems to be a logical way to give players an incentive to behave.
The way I look at this is that if the deposit is small, more people can easily pay it and enjoy the server, but the stake will be small enough that a rulebreaker won't care if they lose it. On the flip-side, if it's too big, exponentially fewer people will be willing to pay it and the community suffers as a result. With premium being a monthly cost, it will serve much better as a deterrent to breaking rules because the money was effectively invested into those characters and would be lost if they got themselves banned.
I don't see deposits working on products that are not a necessity in people's lives as housing is, but I'm also by no means an expert in the financial field. I'd personally pay it as long as it's around the $5 area, but any more than that and I'd be thinking twice about whether it'd be worth the hassle. I have no desire to break any rules and gladly pay for premium in order to get the most out of my gameplay for the time that I can enjoy it.

While brainstorming the idea, I was thinking $10 to continue playing after those 24 hours. Which isn't a lot, but then again, more than you'd care to lose simply to break some rules. At least you won't be making countless of new accounts to continue pouring money into the server.

Right now I feel like people don't care. As long as their progress isn't valuable, they can just create new accounts and continue fucking the rules. It's not too big of an issue right now, as most of the people are returning Dodian players that have been around for a long time. However, when we start taking in fresh players and playerbase actually grows, it would be a bigger issue.

[a retard]

Originally Posted by Nozemi

While brainstorming the idea, I was thinking $10 to continue playing after those 24 hours. Which isn't a lot, but then again, more than you'd care to lose simply to break some rules. At least you won't be making countless of new accounts to continue pouring money into the server.

Right now I feel like people don't care. As long as their progress isn't valuable, they can just create new accounts and continue fucking the rules. It's not too big of an issue right now, as most of the people are returning Dodian players that have been around for a long time. However, when we start taking in fresh players and playerbase actually grows, it would be a bigger issue.

My response to this is mainly, what rules are you worried about being broken that this system would rectify?